Talk:Assassination of Olof Palme

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Euro English

There is a lot of "euro English" in this article. It might benefit from a native speaker going over it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.255.234.173 (talk) 21:33, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Other theories

The first twelve hours after the murder the Swedish television broadcast interviews with several eyewitnesses who all agreed that Olof and Lisbeth Palme had been talkning with a third person, who subsequently produced and fired a gun. According to Lisbeth Palme there was no conversation at all and the official version is now contradictory to the version of the other eyewitnesses. Further the death certificate was written by a doctor who could have been blackmailed since he was involved in one of Sweden's most famouse serial murder investigations. (http://www.mediemordet.com/) These two facts are the foundation of several conspriacy theories where the state itself is involved in a cover up.

Futher the son of Olof Palme has written to Justitiekanslern (the main responsible for law and order in Sweden) complaining that one person has breached secracy by revealing details from the otopcy protocol, which is kept secret. (http://www.itdemokrati.nu/page23.html) The information revealed contains two details: a) Palme had no alcohol or drugs in his blood and b) there is a long track after a shoot not at the back but from the side. The first information is hardly negative but the second information is used to support the view of the eyewitnesses that Palme was shot by someone walking together with the couple and not after. (http://www.itdemokrati.nu/page36.html) It is also hard to understand how the two shoots fired from the back could hit Palme and at the same time one of them would shift direction 90 degrees and hit his wife. That would require a magic bullet...

To add these conspiracy theories are in full accordance with a thorough description of all theories, especially since these theories are widely spread among the population of Sweden despite the fact that the newspapers seldom mention them at all.

Further the recordings of police radio trafic during the night has been destroyed and no one knows why and how.

--- To be included (below) ---

Suicide or escape from Sweden

Several private investigators have suggested that the murder in fact was a suicide or a cover up of an escape to Cuba. People who argue for such theories base their argument on the fact that the majority of the official eyewitnesses clearly state that they saw Palme, Palme's wife and a third person having a conversation, which ended in the third person putting his right hand on Palme's shoulder or embrasing him and firing a gun with his left hand. The eyewitnesses were interviewed by Swedish television and were broadcast during the morning. However Palme's wife denies that a conversation occured. People who belive in the several witnesses consequently believe Palme's wife is covering up something. This theory is strengthend by the fact that it was said that Palme's wife was hurt, but the wound has never been documented.

Hence people in Sweden argue that the murder was conducted or staged by someone who knew the Palme couple.

The postmortal was conducted by Milan Valverius, who had a connection to one of Sweden's most known murder trial, which lead to two doctors losing their license. Valerius might have been subject to blackmail. Some people argue that he did write the truth in the protocol from the post mortal and that is why it is a state secret. Valerius subsequently ended his own life.

Other theories by private investigators

a) Palme had a meeting with someone who killed him http://home.bip.net/palmemordet

b) Criminals in diamond trade killed Palme http://web.archive.org/web/20010217005627/http://www.netcolony. com/life/investia/index.htm

c) Lisbeth Palme shot her husband http://www.nationalmordet.nu/

d) Palme was murdered due to his knowledge of Iran-Contras deal http://www.leopoldreport.com/

e) Palme commited suicide due to drugs, gay sex and trade of illigal weapons. home.swipnet.se/blodsten/Offr%20uppdr%20del%201.htm

f) Palme cheated on his wife and was killed by an illigitimate son. http://www.itdemokrati.nu/

g) Palme was killed by someone within the police http://home.swipnet.se/~w-64255/Sitemap.htm

--- To be included (above) ---

None of these way-out "other theories" nor any of the referenced links above appear in the equivalent Swedish Wikipedia article sv:Palmemordet. Unless and until they do merit inclusion in the Swedish article, they should not in my view appear in the English version.Phase4 16:21, 11 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well... does it really matter? But you have a point, I ought to target the Swedish wiki first. Any Swede will be able to listen to the television broadcast archive etc and hear for themselves what the witnesses said.

The Swedish article has for years been the target of all sorts of fringe theories. All sorts of crazy conspiracies have been removed from the article - and will continue to be removed. Thuresson 04:45, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the fringe theories are based on some facts and I am currently adding these facts with references to Swedish Television and other references. I challenge you, as a fellow Swede, to check the references and see if they are correct.

The problem with conspiracy theories is that anybody can launch one. Thuresson 05:31, 12 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm a bit surprised noone has managed to launch a theory including aliens, gay sex

, the CIA and a suitcase full of dollars. Just a matter of time?? /fellow Swede —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.17.235.185 (talk) 16:50, 27 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

POV tag

I've added a POV tag. Although other explanations for Palme's assassination might be included, one should not cater to simplist conspiracist notions, as those of Larouche for example. Ibraham Razin, who in this article is stated to be a CIA agent is in fact Oswald LeWinter, a known hoaxer. Intangible2.0 02:25, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I removed those bits. Article needs more sources though. Intangible2.0 02:21, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

POV isn't exactly the correct template to use here, since all theories are POVish, and the theories are the topic of the article. It should rather be Template:Disputed-section and Template:fact. Said: Rursus ☺ ★ 08:11, 4 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

See WP:UNDUE. Cheers. Intangible2.0 00:49, 25 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Article error on subway station

The article currently states that Mr Palme was headed towards the Radmansgatan station and was steps away from that station before being assassinated. Although the Grand Cinema at the corner of Sveavagan and Tegnergatan is within sight of of Radmansgatan station, Palme was going towards Hotorget station. There is an entrance to Hotorget station at the corner of Tunnelgatan and Sveavagan. Does anyone know why he went to Hotorget station and not Radmansgatan station?

81.229.81.172 (talk) 15:45, 12 January 2008 (UTC) ALJ[reply]

The error has since been corrected, but this question is sometimes raised in conspiracy circles. I won't dive into that muck except to say, in response to the above question, that Rådmansgatan is indeed closer to the cinema, but Hötorget is in the right direction for where the Palmes were going (their home in Stockholm's old town, Gamla Stan). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ylleman (talk • contribs) 21:02, 28 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of trivia

"Trivia" seemed an inappropriate label for statements of the cost and reward related to the case. Trivia is discouraged, but the statements included seem worthwhile (and non-trivial) and form a coherent section. I've therefore renamed the section "Costs" (and removed the Trivia template). "Costs" is the best I can come up with to cover the statement of money spent and pages generated, as well as the reward offered. If anyone can do better, please do. Klippa (talk) 02:29, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

12-hour clock times

Why is the 12-hour clock used in the time line?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_and_time_notation_by_country#Sweden Ldfifty (talk) 13:51, 30 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Police involvement

Why is there no mention of the police involovment in this article? It is a fact thet the police trail is a verywidespread theory and in fact one of the theories the Granskningskommition criticized the Palme-investigators for not have brought this to attention..this theory should be brought up if any! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.65.150.58 (talk) 03:26, 15 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This theory is actually one of the most significant and reasonable ones. There is a great body of testimonies of men equipped with walkie-talkies around the place of the murder at the time of the murder, including positive identifications of several individuals and intercepted radio communication. The individuals have been linked to right-extremist groups within the police and among a particular gym and a gun club, all sharing the same members. Individuals of this affiliation within the police were on active duty at the time in ways irregular from the normal schedule, for instance one policeman serving in the emergency call reception who dropped several incoming calls and delayed the alert, and retroactively timestamped the event register to create the appearance of police arriving at the scene earlier than happened. The inconsistency of the records are established. Hans Holmér, the Chief of Police at the time, and the secret service shared the same affiliation and seemingly directed the investigation in tangential and unrelated suspects. Hans Holmér allegedly and officially spent the time 200 kilometers from Stockholm at the time, but was identified as being present in the office by other high ranking police officers. The police and secret service has consistently refused to follow up the police trail. This could be the largest conspiracy in Swedish judicial history, and at least five books have been written on the topic. Miqademus (talk) 01:57, 24 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I added a section on this adapted from the Anti Avsan article. Andreas ^(T) 18:20, 6 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"The 2004 confession"

There's a pretty shaky source on this (a translation of an Aftonbladet article), and there's nothing in the Swedish article about it. It's written conclusively, which is a very bad angle to it. I've therefore decided to remove it entirely. This decision is of course reversible, but I decided to notify my reasons for it here. Pueben (talk) 20:58, 26 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Pueben's reasoning appears good to me.---PJHaseldine (talk) 22:33, 26 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Iran Contra connection

The Mossad Operative Ari Ben-Menashe stated in his 1991 book 'Profits of War' that Palme was killed by the CIA as a result of his investigation into the American/Israeli and Bofors arms deals with Iran. he said that the death of Robert Maxwell was related to this. --Rolec Dubbing (talk) 17:31, 11 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Indira Gandhi assassination which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 06:46, 18 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Police Investigation

Some information about the extensive activities of the Police would be relevant. The investigation which ran for years was headed by Hans Holmér out of 'Palmerummet'. Lklundin (talk) 20:30, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The investigation ran for years and is indeed still ongoing, but a section on it should note that Holmér was involved only in its first year. He resigned on March 5, 1987, two days after the parliament (Konstitutionsutskottet) launched an inquiry into the conduct of the murder investigation. Ylleman (talk) 19:49, 28 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Why are the "police", the "army" and the "säpo" theories not mentioned?

I wonder why there is no mention at all of the possibility of a Swedish conspiration. Palme was hated by parts of the Police, was considered a risk to Swedish security by the Swedish army ("too weak" towards the Soviet union) and was warned by the Swedish minister of Defence that there might be a conspiration among high army officials.

87.188.247.66 (talk) 15:25, 28 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Police trail

This possibility has been documented, among others, in the prestigeous German weekly Die Zeit and therefore is relevant, there is no reason to omit it. It is clearly metioned (like the other "theories") that this is a hypothetical scenario and the opinion of the authors. It is irrelevant if it appears in the Swedish WP. It is up to the Swedish editors to include it there, too. I removed the details because they are poorly written, indeed. Andreas ^(T) 11:46, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, fair enough. It just seemed like too much of a WP:BLP violation not to remove it. Are you certain that this is permitted under WP:BLP? I do hope fingering a living Swedish politician as the killer does not presage a repeat of the Siegenthaler incident. By the way, it says in the Swedish article on Avsan that Anér identifies him as the so called "Dekorimamannen", i.e. the man standing outside the Dekorima boutique. It doesn't say that he identifies him as the killer. I haven't read the book myself so I don't know whether or not he actually does make that claim. If that isn't the case, then it must be removed from the article, and even if he does, I'm worried that this is a BLP violation; it's obviously a very serious charge that shouldn't be thrown around haphazardly. Shoplifter (talk) 14:05, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, visiting you from the german WP. I agree that the WP-BLP rules must be respected, but the problem here is that the current three lines of "Police conspiracy" can well be seen as being part of an attempt to rather cover up what is claimed to be reported. Anyway, the part of the 1995 article in Die Zeit that deals with the two witnesses of the "Dekorima man" (p. 11-13 in the pdf-version) is not at all a work by Klaus-Dieter Knapp, but a nearly word-by-word translation of Sven Anérs 1993 article, reprinted here. It should be added that at least Knapp was fair enough to mention Anér (and Lars Borgnäs) as his main references. Here my question: Why is it that on the page here the copy of Knapp is the only listed source while the original researcher and author, i.e. Anér, is not even mentioned? Second: Anér claims since 2008 (Palmemordet: affären Anti Avsan. Almunge 2008, ISBN 978-91-633-2711-7) that the cited Swedish Member of Parliament is to be identified with the "Dekorima man" and since there was no reaction at all, Anér on several occasions and in order to provoke a defamation suit called him publicly the muderer of Palme, again with no reaction. In 2010 he repeated it in a public letter to EU Comissioner Viviane Reding: "Olof Palme was, in fact, shot by a policeman, Anti Avsan, to-day a Judge at the Stockholm City Court and re-elected Conservative Member of the Swedish Riksdag. At least twenty of Avsan´s colleagues were hired to help him do his job and to safely disappear from the scene of the crime." During all these years, Anti Avsan never objected not a single word, just like: "no", and that is different to Siegenthaler. Furthermore, the names of other suspects still alive are cited here without scruple. On the german WP-page of Olof Palme the names and the case of Anér and Avsan are mentioned and there were never any complaints. So, who is interested in an only three-line-account of a thread "Police conspiracy"? There is a lot more to tell on it. BaneshN. (talk) 11:21, 5 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Carlsson

Deputy Prime Minister Ingvar Carlsson may have "immediately assumed the duties of Prime Minister", however he did not immediately become "new leader of the Social Democratic Party". That happened some time later.Royalcourtier (talk) 00:44, 16 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Carlsson became leader of the party on March 3rd, which was the Monday following the murder (which took place in the night between Friday and Saturday). The process was not automatic, but in the context I think it qualifies as immediate. However, it might be noted that Carlsson only served as temporary prime minister for an interim cabinet until March 12, when he was elected prime minister by the parliament. Ylleman (talk) 19:37, 28 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Statistics of Firearm Distribution by Type

An idea of how common the type of weapon used compared to other weapons would help put the crime into context. 31.68.129.50 (talk) 00:29, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Separate investigation from conspiracy

A fair few of the "theories" mentioned in the article and on this discussion page are conspiracy theories with varying numbers of adherents. I propose splitting the "Murder theories" section into one part with the different directions actually taken by the police investigation, and one for the conspiracy theories. The first of these would contain the current sub-sections "The 33-year-old" (the man was actually arrested), PKK (the main focus during the investigation's first year) and Christer Pettersson (who was charged and convicted). Ylleman (talk) 20:35, 28 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Gunnarsson's murder

I just added "Relevant inline" to the second paragraph under "The 33-year-old". I don't think the circumstances surrounoding Gunnarsson's death are relevant to the murder of the prime minister. There is a page on Gunnarsson where this information is relevant, but it doesn't add anything here. Ylleman (talk) 21:51, 28 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Film portrayals

The description of The Last Contract, which has its own article, should be reduced to the first sentence. The fourth sentence is pure advertising and has no place here. The second describes the plot, which is better placed in the film's own article. The third discusses the motive for the murder as suggested by the film - but the film is a work of fiction, and the speculations of its makers has no relevance. Ylleman (talk) 22:18, 28 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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La folle enquête de Stieg Larsson

The May 2019 issue of Le Monde diplomatique (French edition, p. 24) includes a review of "La folle enquête de Stieg Larsson" (The crazy investigation of Stieg Larsson, Flammarion, Paris) by Jan Stocklassa, which says that at the time of Larsson death, he was researching the Olof Palme murder. The prime suspects were reportedly "the secret services of South Africa and the Atlantists network based in Irangate."

"La folle enquête de Stieg Larson" is reportedly available in English as The Man Who Played with Fire: Stieg Larsson's Lost Files and the Hunt for an Assassin.

I likely will not find the time to do more with this, but it seems like this current article might benefit from appropriate consideration of the contents of this book, assuming it has adequate references. DavidMCEddy (talk) 19:48, 4 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

PKK and "people with long hair"

The section PKK begins with: In 1971, Olof Palme said that he blamed the fear of the masses on "anarchists and people with long hair [and] people with beards."[32]

Following up on this suggestion, Hans Holmér, the Stockholm police commissioner, worked with an intelligence lead passed to him (supposedly by Bertil Wedin) and arrested a number of Kurds living in Sweden.

I can't understand what is the connection between "anarchists and people with long hair [and] people with beards." and the kurds.--MiguelMadeira (talk) 21:28, 25 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Leads from the crime scene

It says that because the isotopic composition of the lead in the bullets was the same, "the bullets were manufactured at the same time" (and cites it to something that most English wikipedians can't read).

I find that conclusion implausible. I'd expect it to conclude that they were made "in the same batch", "at the same factory", or something like that.

Can someone who reads Swedish confirm that (a) the cited source is reliable, and (b) that it says what this article claims it says? Failing that, I'm considering deleting the claim.

MrDemeanour (talk) 20:06, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As stated on Wikipedia, the four stable isotopes of lead (²⁰⁴Pb, ²⁰⁶Pb, ²⁰⁷Pb and ²⁰⁸Pb) can be used to trace bullets, because of the unique ratio of these in each batch. The above source, which is reliable, states that "the so-called Mockfjärd gun ... was stolen during a burglary in Haparanda in 1983, along with 91 [Winchester] "[M]etal [P]iercing" cartridges in two boxes. These catridges have the same isotopic composition of lead and were manufactured at the same time ["tillfälle", i.e. "occassion", i.e. in the same batch] as the two bullets from [the site of the assassination]." This claim can also be found elsewhere, with clearer wording. [1][2][3] Cilidus (talk) 08:34, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks!

MrDemeanour (talk) 10:01, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Should we add motivation to template?

What was the motivation behind the assassination of Olof Palme? Why would somebody kill him? Can you reply when you find an answer? 174.135.36.220 (talk) 03:16, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]